Curse

sajuuk_khar · Feb 15, 2011, 11:00 AM // 11:00

After playing all the GW games countless times over I've realized there are several things in the game that have no real explanation that I caught and i thought i would list them here. I do realize most of these things will never get answered because they really dont have an answer but ehh.

Elona

1. The Door - In the Barbarous Shore there is a big closed door with an area behind it. What is behind it? - Solved

2. Some ruins - In the Poisonous Outcrops there are some Ascalonian ruins on the north end why are they there? (though given the fact that the same statue heads as found in the Crystal Desert can be found in the Catacombs in pre-searing suggests that the Ascalonians came from Elona) - Possibly Solved

3. Dzalana - what is this area to the east of Vabbi like? Also if it is the homeland of the Harpies and Hekets that are constantly invading Vabbi why are they trying to leave Dzalana?

4. Alter - Why is there what looks like a Charr searing Alter in the Desolation?

Cantha

1. The Aurios Mines - its said a race of what may have been dwarfs mined here. I want to know how did they get there? why did they mine there? what happened to them?

2. Kanaxai - just about everything about him besides the fact he was corrupted. Hes the final Boss of an elite mission yet we know nothing about him.

3. Altrumm Ruins - if the Kurzicks didn't build it as they claim, then who did?

Tyria

1. Seekers - who where they? why did the leave their home? What happened to them? (note could be the people who became Ascalonians)

2. Wizard Tower(Pre-Searing), Wizard Tower(Kryta), Temples of Balthazar and Grenth, Lyssa Ice Cave, Ruins in the Tarnished Coast - Who Built each of these things? Why did they Build them? What is the Point?

3. North-west part of the map - Why did anet make all that part of the map if we cant go there? Whats on that Volcanic looking island up there?

4. Random Tidbits - Does that bottomless pit in the Far Shiverpeaks go anywhere? Why is there a giant statue with the same runes as on the Hall of Judgment in Doomlore shrine? Who built most of the Eotn Dungeons? Why are there the same pillars with scrolling text that are found in the Realm of Torment found in the Bloodstone Cave, also why is there two dead graven monoliths nearby? What's up with Xien, and is he connected to?

Core

1: Who hired Zinn's to make Golems

Casey5191 · Feb 15, 2011, 02:36 PM // 14:36

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild...questions/Lore
The door leads around Kourna up to Vabbi

Spiritz · Feb 15, 2011, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Elone
1. pass
2. If you recall lore - abbadon was 6th god and therefore would be worshipped all over tyria , also crystal desert leads onto the desolation and as we all know man used to migrate with his flocks and herds to new pastures ( please recall this was a long time ago and climate may have been different incase anyone gets all smart ass :P ).UK has roman villas remains etc and this can be same thing.
3. Could be migration of them and their prey and they follow.
4. never seen it myself so again i`ll pass
Cantha
1.Dwarves im sure are excellent miners ( otherwise they wouldnt live underground and tunnel ) so its all possible that underneath cantha is a network of hidden tunnels.We have the channel tunnel - maybe they have a version themselves.And why they left - maybe to move onto new areas to mine - whatever they were mining :S
2. pass
3.pass
Tyria.
1. Seekers were probably wiped out by the mursaat - they were enemies and probably the only threat to mursaats.
2. All old folklore always state wizards live in towers - simple.Temples are the places to worship the 5(6) gods and early tyrians would be like us and build monuments etc.
3. ask anet
4. Ive no idea if bloodstone cave is linked anyway with bloodstone fen but if they are then that would give a valid reason for the text as well in realm of torment - abbadon was banished as we know and we know what the bloodstone was used for so the text may be like ancient magic runes to help seal things or an ancient warning.
And gravens i think were under abbadons control in nf and im guessing in the old days they were with him back then same as the margonites.
*edit thanks to casy and his link
It appears that bloodstone fen and bloodstone caves are linked and part of the 3 bloodstones
Thats my ideas but i do have one question myself
What the hell do the dwarves mine ?
You can blame the op for my question as he made me think lol

HigherMinion · Feb 15, 2011, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Tyria

3. Iceland.

sajuuk_khar · Feb 15, 2011, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Spiritz

1. What does Abbadon being the 6th god have to do with the reason Ascalonion ruins are where they are that doesn't make sense. also the crystal desert was an ocean before Abbadon fell they had to sail across it. so them moving for hearding reasons doesn't make scene. Also lore states humans arrived on Elona and Tyria at the same year meaning that they moved quickly from Elona into Ascalon

2. Where is it said seekers and Mursaat ever met. the Mursaat are like in Kryta not the desert. wheres the proof Mursaat ever met them?

3. I do realize dwarfs are great miners but why mine there and only there there's no evidence of dwarfs outside of Tyira but that one spot meaning it had something important. my real question is WHY THERE OF ALL PLACES?

4. There are no wizards in Guild Wars. this leaves the question of who built the tower and WHY unanswered.

5. The Temples of Grenth and Balth are located in far off locations with no other signs of life near them. why would Humans choose to build temples there instead of lets say near their main cites.

6. The Bloodstones were used to seal magic and they were all thrown into a volcano after Abbadons Defeat. Then years later the volcano spewed them back out. Why was there pillars of the same type as in the realm of torment put in the bloodstone cave when Abbadon was defeated and sealed. which still leaves the question of who built it and how did Abbadon's minions get there.

Spiritz · Feb 15, 2011, 04:20 PM // 16:20

1.Abbadon had many worshippers remember - also early margonites were human.Another possibility is when were the ruins built?.
Also couldnt many ruins be settlements of the race before humans came - the forgotten.
2. was thinking of someone else
3. Was there any proof of the asurans pre eotn ? , asurans lived underground and no evidence so same can be said about dwarves in cantha.
4. Technically there are wizards - male elementalists , many cultures refer to a cast of magic user with different names , wizards/sorcerers etc.
5. May have been Forgotten worshippers.
6.Forgotten may have built them , margonites got bored and did graffiti , could be ancient text with a warning - beware of the abbadon , and his minions were probably all over tyria at some stage.We dont know or cant state when the monolyths got there or died , maybe it was the last place that fell and they were the last before imprisonment.
If i was imprisoned in realm of torment for eternity id sure as hell make sure i write graffiti on things , directions , curses .... look at egyptian monuments etc.

Untill anet hires staff to give players who wish to know entire history of tyria we wont know everything - sheesh its just a game .
Anet - why not hire writers then sell the history books to players like the above - you`ll probably get enough money to buy out ncsoft lol - or get gw2 closer to release

sajuuk_khar · Feb 15, 2011, 05:21 PM // 17:21

1. Before Abbadon's Falls the Crystal Desert and The Desolation were a ocean. The fact that the ruins are there in the same architecture as modern day Ascalonian buildings shows that they were made after Abbadon's fall and the waters receded. It couldn't have been any of Abbadon's Followers since he and all of his followers were imprisoned when he fell. thus it had to be normal humans.
Looking back at lore its said King Doric ruled all of Ascalon and Orr. I suppose those ruins could have been a sort of southern boundary marker of the empire.

2. Even if the elementalists are called wizards it still doesn't answer my initial question of why the towers were built because they are unique features and what magical items do they contain within them?

3. By the time the Bloodstones had been thrown across tyria the forgotten had already retreated into the deserts to serve glint and to watch over Abbadons prison. The Forgotten couldn't have been the makers of it since they weren't near the area at the time.
I was looking at the time line on the Guild Wars Wiki and found that Kryta was initially founded as a colony of Elona AFTER the Bloodstones had been made and then spread across Tyira. This means that the first humans of Kryta came by sea which also means they would have had to pass by Sparkfly Swamp and the bloodstone cave. It could be that the ancient Elonains found it and realizing they had found something important built that area and put in their magical scrolling text pillars that they have in the cave.

4. Had the Forgottten Built the Temples of Grenth and Balth they would also had to have built the Heroes' Ascent outpost on the Battle Isles. As far as my knowledge of the Forgotten go they only lived in Tyria(the continent).

chuckles79 · Feb 15, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Here's some uneducated guesses and some smart ones:

Elona:

1. Corsair Guild Hall

2. The Primeval Kings existed before organized Tyrian kingdoms and had influences as far north as Ascalon. Also they have the same religion, so it makes sense.

3. Your question continues to the next question, what's North of there which would be East of Ascalon?

4. This one I actually have an excellent and informed answer for. The Altar that was used in the searing was not of Charr designed. The searing spell was taught to the charr by the titans, who are servants of Abbadon. It's not inconceivable that the Margonites used the same magics when Abbadon rebelled against the other gods and also when the Margonites were invaded. This could be the origin of the reason the Crystal Desert stopped being a sea and became toxic to humans.

Cantha

1. There was only a small contigent of dwarves. They were either wiped out by Kanaxai's minions (reavers and oni) or by greedy luxons.

2. You don't really need a good explanation because he's a demon. He wants people to suffer.

3. Canthan Lore on wiki explains that they weren't the only indigenous people to Echovald. The builders were either absorbed into the Kurzick Houses (perhaps one of the houses is descended from them?)

Tyria

1. The closest land to the desert is Orr. That would be more likely.

2.The towers were the work of human spellcasters. They used experimental and narrow-scoped spells that aren't known to players because of the lack of training/lack of usability. Think researchers. Tarnished Coast was built by a race that was originally going to be in the third campaign. In the GW continuum, they were most likely eaten by raptors and the fleeing survivors were wiped by Joffs the Mitigator in HM.
That is not just a joke, the dinos in TC are definitely the top of the food chain and the existence of Tengu (quetzal), frogmen, and simians indicate that the dinos are a more recent development. Further proof is that areas that have dinos, are largely dinos. Only the quetzal can occupy the same area and they are quite fast moving.

3. I think they had an eye for the future and wanted to leave the area open for possible expansions or elite missions. Also consider, Saul D'Alessio spoke of Mursaat cities. The Fire Island missions show settlements, but I wouldn't classify them as "cities". Perhaps they planned an invasion of "Mursaatland" and scrapped it due to too boring.

4. Does that bottomless pit in the Far Shiverpeaks go anywhere?
Yes, it leads to the bottom of Frostmaw's Burrows

Why is there a giant statue with the same runes as on the Hall of Judgment in Doomlore shrine? The original access to the Hall of Heroes was North of the Wall. It's possible the shrine was built upon this location.

Who built most of the Eotn Dungeons? Skritt, only race who's activity during that time is not spoken for.

Why are there the same pillars with scrolling text that are found in the Realm of Torment found in the Bloodstone Cave, also why is there two dead graven monoliths nearby? Abbadon (as you should realize from the Prophecies campaign) had an interest in bloodstones. I would speculate that he tried to open a nightfallen rift there, and the invading margonite and monoliths were interrupted in their plan by the Ettins. While the Bloodstone Ettins are not overly powerful, they are enough to wipe a group of margonite casters and two monoliths quite easily.

chuckles79 · Feb 15, 2011, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajuuk_khar

Spiritz

2. Where is it said seekers and Mursaat ever met. the Mursaat are like in Kryta not the desert. wheres the proof Mursaat ever met them?

3. I do realize dwarfs are great miners but why mine there and only there there's no evidence of dwarfs outside of Tyira but that one spot meaning it had something important. my real question is WHY THERE OF ALL PLACES?

4. There are no wizards in Guild Wars. this leaves the question of who built the tower and WHY unanswered.

5. The Temples of Grenth and Balth are located in far off locations with no other signs of life near them. why would Humans choose to build temples there instead of lets say near their main cites.

I felt I answered the other questions in my last post, as for these.

2. The Mursaat are native to the Ring of Fire, but are shown to be able to handle any climate. The Mursaat go where they want.

3. Slave or hired labor.

4. Wizard is actually used to describe Orion in pre-searing. Wizard is a generic term for educated spellcaster.

5. They were built in far off locations because they access the UW and FoW. The builders wanted access to these places in hard to find spots in case the Temple of Ages became unavailable.

Spiritz · Feb 15, 2011, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Tyria also refers to the whole gw world -
"The Forgotten are a group of ancient snake-like beings that stand upright. It is said that they were placed on the world of Tyria in 1769 BE by the Six Gods in order to guide the other races. They originally resided all over Tyria. "
Note its said the world of tyria and not the continent ( also called tyria ).

The uber big problem with all this theorising is we dont know jack - untill eotn we didnt know about the elder dragons who precede the gods .Who can say there was other races of humanoid like people here before .Maybe the dragons killed them , maybe like the dinasaurs many elder races exist and havnt been discovered ( traces etc ).

I dont really think anet planned to make lore match the ingame graffix , designers designed scenery etc with very little info cept guidelines.If anet told them we want pyramids in vabbi/desolation they would draw them in without wanting a history lesson in gw lore ... no you cant have a 3 sided pyramid you need 4 , oh that headress is wrong as they didnt invent that color at that time... use your imagination for rest.

sajuuk_khar · Feb 15, 2011, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

I felt I answered the other questions in my last post, as for these.

2. The Mursaat are native to the Ring of Fire, but are shown to be able to handle any climate. The Mursaat go where they want.

3. Slave or hired labor.

4. Wizard is actually used to describe Orion in pre-searing. Wizard is a generic term for educated spellcaster.

5. They were built in far off locations because they access the UW and FoW. The builders wanted access to these places in hard to find spots in case the Temple of Ages became unavailable.

1. The Mursaat are not said to be native to the Ring of Fire they only have a fortress there to stop people from opening the door of Komalie.

2.Again WHY ARE THEY MINING THERE also I don't think dwarfs used slave labor the Stone Summit sure but they weren't formed till recently.

3. The FoW and the UW only became accessible recently during the rising of Dhuum and Menzies Assault according to lore these temples were built long ago so putting them in far off places to hide entrances doesn't make much sense.

chuckles79 · Feb 15, 2011, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajuuk_khar

1. The Mursaat are not said to be native to the Ring of Fire they only have a fortress there to stop people from opening the door of Komalie.

2.Again WHY ARE THEY MINING THERE also I don't think dwarfs used slave labor the Stone Summit sure but they weren't formed till recently.

3. The FoW and the UW only became accessible recently during the rising of Dhuum and Menzies Assault according to lore these temples were built long ago so putting them in far off places to hide entrances doesn't make much sense.

1. The Ring of Fire is the area that they are most concentrated. Agreed they might not be native there, but the point is that they can survive any climate.

2. I was implying that the reason dwarves are in the Aurios Mines is because they were either hired or enslaved. It's possible that the Canthans/Luxons heard of their mining abilities and brought them in as specialists

3. Where does it say that the UW and FoW only recently became accessible? While the reasons for going there are recent, I don't remember it saying they are only recently accessible.

chuckles79 · Feb 15, 2011, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajuuk_khar

3. The FoW and the UW only became accessible recently during the rising of Dhuum and Menzies Assault according to lore these temples were built long ago so putting them in far off places to hide entrances doesn't make much sense.

From wiki's page on the FoW:

"The Fissure of Woe (FoW) is the realm of Balthazar, the god of war. There he is engaged in an eternal battle with his half brother, Menzies and his Shadow Army."

So there has always been access to FoW.

Chrisworld · Feb 16, 2011, 03:04 AM // 03:04

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Beetletun

Quote:

Historians speculate that in time out of mind, these now-ruined watchtowers guarded Kryta from some unknown northern threat. Now the crumbled towers stand like ancient stone soldiers still awaiting the arrival of that mysterious enemy from across the great saltwater lake called Giant's Basin.

This I MUST know.

draxynnic · Feb 16, 2011, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Regarding ancient ruins:

We do know that there were at least 3 races around at the time of the writing of the Tome of Rubicon, since that's apparently when the Seer-Mursaat war occurred. We've also been told that in GW2 at least, we'll see ruins of the seer civilisation, although we might not know that's what we're seeing at first. Some of those might also be visible in GW1 - the description for the Iron Mines of Moladune is very suggestive, for instance, and the quest text for Seeking the Seer and dialogue from Evennia indicates that the dwarves know the seer has been hanging around the area for a while rather than just showing up for the Flameseeker Prophecies.

There's also the possibility that the mursaat have left ruins behind themselves. While they won the war, the impression I get is that they didn't get much joy from their victory - their civilisation was shattered to the point that despite their individual power, they lacked the strength as a civilisation to impose their will over later, more vigorous civilisations that rose afterwards, such as those of the forgotten, humans, dwarves and charr. While the Ring of Fire isn't their homeland (more a garrison on a strategic location - their home city is implied to be somewhere in the wilderness to the north or west of Kryta) I suspect that by the time of Prophecies, the mursaat civilisation had been reduced to about the size of a small city. There may be other cities of the mursaat out there that fell to the seers... or to later enemies.

Alternatively, of course, even ANet may not know how many old races were destroyed when the dragons were last active, so ruins could be from races we've not heard of yet - or past civilisations of races we have (humans and forgotten came from elsewhere, but it's not impossible that one or both races had colonies on Tyria that were destroyed last time around, or that they were originally native to Tyria and fled when the dragons arose). Next time I'm on the Kurzick side - possibly the double rep weekend I suspect is coming at the end of the month - I might have to investigate the Ruins and see if there's anything indicative of a particular race.

Regarding the dwarven artifacts in the Mines, I see four possibilities. First, the dwarves were mining on behalf of some other race, sometime before human history was recorded in Cantha, and those dwarves were killed or left when their patrons' civilisation fell. Second, there was a dwarven colony there that, for whatever reason, failed. Third, dwarves never lived there but a race that traded with dwarves did. Fourth... the artefacts aren't dwarven, but of another race that influenced the dwarves.

sajuuk_khar · Feb 16, 2011, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

From wiki's page on the FoW:

"The Fissure of Woe (FoW) is the realm of Balthazar, the god of war. There he is engaged in an eternal battle with his half brother, Menzies and his Shadow Army."

So there has always been access to FoW.

There is a LARGE difference between existence and Accessibility the FoW and Uw may have been around forever but as i said they were only ACCESSIBLE to humans as of recently when Dhuum and Menzies made thier moves.

draxynnic · Feb 17, 2011, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Welll... we don't know just how accessible they are, although given that the FoW and Underworld have assisted access and the realms of the other gods don't, it's reasonable to presume that existed access is only granted when there are problems.

That said, though, Nimros the Hunter claims to have reached the Fissure of Woe without the aid of Balthazar's agents, so it appears there are other ways of getting there...

chuckles79 · Feb 24, 2011, 09:20 PM // 21:20

It makes sense that if the war between Balthazar and Menzies is eternal, that he has been importing well-qualified help since the beginning.

I agree that the UW is a more recent development, and Grenth doesn't seem to be the type to like random people wandering around breaking things; while Balthazar probably gets a kick out of it.

Konig Des Todes · Feb 24, 2011, 11:20 PM // 23:20

The use of the word "eternal" could easily merely be metaphorical.

If Balthazar and Menzies are half brothers, they had to of been born, and there had to of been a time prior to that. It's also highly unlikely that they were at each other's throats with minions since they were infants (although that is a funny concept).

It should also be noted that the line comes from the wiki which is fan created.

Rastigan's dialogue would be interesting to note in this discussion:

Quote:

Few mortals are welcomed in Balthazar's realm.

I think that the wiki line comes from Saidon's dialogue:

Quote:

The Realm of War is a place of eternal conflict.

It should be noted that Saidon never said that the conflict is between Balthazar and Menzies, nor has he stated that the Realm of War was always a realm of war. Her merely said that the Fissure of Woe, as being the Realm of War, is in eternal conflict.

If the Realm of Torment truly does become the Redeemed Realm after Kormir's rise to power, then it is not hard to believe that before Balthazar - should the realm have existed before him or if there even was a god prior to him - that the Realm of War was not always the Realm of War.

sajuuk_khar · Mar 08, 2011, 05:51 AM // 05:51

So I know this is late in the game but I did remember one thing I forgot to add. The Hall of Judgment and the UW are lorenados giant cyclones of lore WTFness.

Here is most of the things it connects to and how it connects to them. Just about all of this is stuff comes from other peoples observations.

:Hall of Judgment - Temple of Balthazar - Temple of Grenth - Heroes Ascent:
-Have the same eye dais as seen in the bottom center of the pic I liked to.
-Have the same eye things seen on the bottom left and right
-Have the same building style
-Have the same pulsating/hum like sheen to them hard to see in the pic

:Hall of Judgment - UW - Eye of Janthir Holders - Relic in Doomlore Shrine:
-All have the same large rune as seen on the 4 pillars in the HoJ pic
-Doomlore relic has the same pulsating/hum sheen to it as the HoJ
-Eye of Janthir Holders also used in HoJ as places where reapers float
-Large rune pillars also near reaper shrine in Chaos Planes

:Hall of Judgment - Mursaat - Eye of Janthir/Eye of Janthir Holders:
-Hall of Judgment and Mursaat have the exact same door model(Mursaat door in Temple of Unseen in Riverside)
-Eye of Janthir Holders have Mursaat language on base which also found in the HoJ where the reapers stand(this may be model reuse due to the GW live team limitations)
-Mursaat have the same pulsing/hum sheen on their buildings(and as far as I can recall they are the ONLY race with this)
-Eye of Janthir resembles the Eye of providence, Eye Dais in HoJ also does.

:UW - Vabbi - Ascalon - Catacombs - Kryta - Charr - Tomb of Primevil Kings - Path to Hall of Heroes:
-All share the same rune language as in the pic above found in Ascalaon, Kryta, and on Charr banners, and on murals on the Tomb of Primevil Kings
-Found in Path to Hall of Heroes, UW, and Catacombs with the same language but also including the same single circular rune.
-Found in UW, Path to Hall of Heroes, Catacombs and DO NOT TOUCH door and similar door nearby in the Forum Highlands in Vabbi with same rune language and OVERLAPPING circular runes.

So what does this all mean.... frankly I don't know besides that there was one or more groups who interacted with each other and their combined or singular grasp and influence spread from one side of known tyria to the other and whose power also went from Ascalon down to Vabbi and The Battle Isles and also Into the realm of Grenth and the Path into the Hall of Heroes